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PostPosted: Jul 11, 2009 8:22 pm 
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"I think our friend Axil thinks that florid grandiloquence is a substitute for substance in an argument."

Yes, as a friend, I will devote all the time and energy necessary to free your thinking from the rut that it has fallen into. The near term future holds the promise of an exciting revitalization of more effective proliferation efforts from around the world with the United States in the vanguard. It would be unfortunate if you missed out on the satisfaction that this progress will bring from a misperception of the upcoming events.

It is true, the United States has suffered from a lack of focus in the area of proliferation for over a decade now, but it has once again regained its footing. As events unfold, I will interpreter these facts for your benefit. In my view, increased vigilance against proliferation can only be good for the thorium fuel cycle, a safe nuclear technology from every perspective.


Yes We Can.

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PostPosted: Jul 11, 2009 8:41 pm 
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India must respond effectively: Swamy

Dr. Swamy added that this was not only a failure of diplomacy but also a public declaration that “no goodies will come to India” unless it agreed to the demands of the five permanent members of the UN Security Council.

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PostPosted: Jul 11, 2009 8:46 pm 
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DV82XL wrote:
Quote:
Kazakhstan accuses ex-nuclear chief of illegal uranium sales

Astana (AFP) June 1, 2009

The recently imprisoned former head of Kazakhstan's state nuclear power agency stole the majority of the Central Asian nation's uranium deposits, security officials alleged on Monday.

Interesting story.
But it doesn't appear to say anything about illegal uranium exports from Kazakhstan -- or am I misreading it ?


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PostPosted: Jul 11, 2009 9:30 pm 
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Axil wrote:
India must respond effectively: Swamy

Dr. Swamy added that this was not only a failure of diplomacy but also a public declaration that “no goodies will come to India” unless it agreed to the demands of the five permanent members of the UN Security Council.


This is the same thing I posted before. Subramanian Swamy is the head of the opposition Janata Party. Janata is against the US/India nuclear deal and has been from the beginning, believing that India would be better off developing its domestic thorium technology.

The quote, which you are taking out of context, belongs to this passage:

Quote:
In a statement, Dr. Swamy said that he had warned against the deal and asked the government not to sign it.

“The brazen decision of the G8 countries in the presence of the Indian Prime Minister Dr. Manmohan Singh, and that too in Italy, that no country will assist or trade with any country, outside the five-nation Nuclear Suppliers Group, in any potentially fissile material unless such a country is either a Nuclear Non-Proliferation Treaty (NPT) signatory or at least a NPT compliant by bilateral agreement, proves the contention in my warning,” he said.

Dr. Swamy added that this was not only a failure of diplomacy but also a public declaration that “no goodies will come to India” unless it agreed to the demands of the five permanent members of the UN Security Council.


I don't see how this supports your argument. Apparently, (like I have been saying) they have the capability to proceed without the help of others. Nothing will be served by the G8's stand in this matter, and I suspect that it is just posturing that will fade away when nobody (except people like me) are watching.

jaro wrote:
Interesting story.
But it doesn't appear to say anything about illegal uranium exports from Kazakhstan -- or am I misreading it ?


There is more than enough evidence from interdictions in that region that there is some uranium smuggling going on. If there was a cesium-137 shipment on the way to Iran, it is safe to assume there is trafficking.

You have to believe that the U.S. Department of Energy’s National Nuclear Security Administration (NNSA) wasn't going to spend tons of money there on border detection if this wasn't an issue. Like I said before conditions in that place make it hard to keep everything secure, particularly with the level of corruption there.


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PostPosted: Jul 11, 2009 11:09 pm 
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Re: “no goodies will come to India”


I’ll keep the language simple. These guys know now that the jig is up. It is time to pay the piper. It’s grass eating time.

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PostPosted: Jul 11, 2009 11:29 pm 
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Axil wrote:
Re: “no goodies will come to India”


I’ll keep the language simple. These guys know now that the jig is up. It is time to pay the piper. It’s grass eating time.


You have got a real problem Axil, that is not what the article is saying at all, you cannot select a few words out of context and put your own spin on them.

Really man you are right off the wall here.

An opposition leader, who was against the deal with the US in the first place is saying "I told you so" to the government and suggesting that the thorium program be accelerated. That isn't anyone knuckling under, it's a statement of defiance.


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PostPosted: Jul 11, 2009 11:52 pm 
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One wonders whether or not some of this latest anti-proliferation intitiative's inspiration might not have derived ultimately from China, rather than directly from the G8.


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PostPosted: Jul 11, 2009 11:59 pm 
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Finrod1 wrote:
One wonders whether or not some of this latest anti-proliferation intitiative's inspiration might not have derived ultimately from China, rather than directly from the G8.


Could be but this particular thing about making fuel cycle transfers conditional on NPT was insisted upon by the Americans.


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PostPosted: Jul 12, 2009 1:16 am 
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Axil wrote:
India must respond effectively: Swamy
Dr. Swamy added that this was not only a failure of diplomacy but also a public declaration that “no goodies will come to India” unless it agreed to the demands of the five permanent members of the UN Security Council.

I think he is unduly alarmed. So long as there is no ban on uranium exports to India, the rest is a two edged sword. By not permitting reprocessing of TAPS SNF, the US is delaying sales of nuclear material to India. The purchase orders are going to France and Russia and may also go to Kazakhstan who do not put such conditions. The current 3-stage plan bypasses enrichment but that also is there at a lab scale and can be scaled up to industrial in establishments not recieving imports. PM is right in not reacting.


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PostPosted: Jul 12, 2009 3:07 am 
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jagdish wrote:
I think he is unduly alarmed. So long as there is no ban on uranium exports to India, the rest is a two edged sword. By not permitting reprocessing of TAPS SNF, the US is delaying sales of nuclear material to India. The purchase orders are going to France and Russia and may also go to Kazakhstan who do not put such conditions. The current 3-stage plan bypasses enrichment but that also is there at a lab scale and can be scaled up to industrial in establishments not receiving imports. PM is right in not reacting.


Oh for sure he is just doing what members of the Loyal Opposition do, and that is to keep the government's feet to the fire regardless. But the reason I brought it up is to show that there is other options available to India, and no doubt that was Swamy's secondary motivation as well: saying out loud the things the PM cannot in situations like this.


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PostPosted: Jul 12, 2009 11:40 am 
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Thorium fuel, the other option, requires fissile feed, which shall come from reprocessing used fuel from thermal reactors and fast breeders. Imported fuel shall expedite both power production as well as build up of reactor grade Plutonium. Rest is a double edged sword.


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