Energy From Thorium Discussion Forum

I'm frustrated by the complete scare stories of trivial amounts of ionizing radiation coming from the nuclear regulator in Japan:



This is totally harmless. Even if children lay on the "contaminated" ground there for 4 hours a day every day, which is a rediculous assumption, they are only exposed to 6 mSv/year. This is exactly nothing, a perfectly normal background level of radiation; completely average USA dose is about 6 mSv/year.

http://www.hpa.org.uk/Topics/Radiation/ ... Radiation/

Then there is an even more absurd story that the regulator wants to share with us:



1-37 mSv is in the range of typical CT scans to various organs that are routinely performed in hospitals around the world. Apparently the government thinks it is unsafe to have any CT scan at all, better to die from undiagnosed cancer?

These exposure measurements show the public is safe. How come the regulator doesn't want to state that take-away message out loud?

http://www.jaif.or.jp/english/news_imag ... 52711P.pdf

The regulator isn't trusted.

It just got a lot worse people.

The Japan Atomic Industrial Forum appears to be spreading fear even better than Greenpeace. Here's the most recent environmental impact from Fukushima update:





For comparison, the natural variation in natural background levels of radiation in Japan is larger than 1 mSv. Japan now has to monitor every mountain due to increased natural cosmic ray exposure? Close down kindergartens in all higher elevations?



So they must require that banana fields and a dozen other foodstuffs that contain over 100 Bq/kg of radioactive naturally occuring potassium, be decontantaminated? What's next, regulating granite?

Yes, that appears to be true!



Granite typically contains around 1000 Bq/kg of radioactivity. So shipping granite must be illegal now.



0.5 microsieverts "not a great health hazard". Yes, just like a drop of beer is "not a great health hazard". Natural radiation on this planet lies between 1000 and 300000 microsieverts per year. For Pete's sake, 0.5 microsievert is harmless! Why don't you just say this fair and square, JAIF!!

http://www.jaif.or.jp/english/news_imag ... 05395P.pdf

It is sad that an industrial forum has lost its wits and perspective completely and succumbs to the FUD that is spiralling the world down into an intellectual hellhole. Get ready for more fossil fuels, Japan. You don't regulate those very well. Then again, shipping coal ash must now be illegal too, with its uranium content, soo Fukushima district might drown in its coal ashes soon.

Japan is in serious trouble. First the demographics of a very rapidly aging population. Then the damage caused by the tsunami. And, now their energy cost are going through the roof because of unwarranted fear of radiation. They better hope they get some strong informed leadership soon. The Prime Minister doesn't seem to be buying all of the fear-mongering. Let's hope for Japan's sake that they finish whatever extra safety precautions are needed and turn on those reactors soon.

Curiously they are still willing to sell reactors and others are willing to buy ... recent news out of Vietnam, etc.

The IAEA has a nice article with lots of information on naturally occuring radionuclides. This puts in perspective the absurdity of the Japanese new regulations:

http://www.iaea.org/Publications/Magazi ... 693338.pdf

Tea, coffee, ordinary rocks (!), ordinary soil (!) and brick (!) are no longer allowed to be shipped from Fukushima, as per the new legislation. Fertilizer is especially outlawed, being several times higher, at 2200 to 4600 Bq/kg than the highest allowed limit of 500 Bq.

Books are still allowed "in principle" but you must notify the government and ask for permission.

Excuse me. I now have to call the hazardous materials removal agency to remove my garden soil radwaste, before my children get sick.

Oh man. Just when you think you've heard it all.

http://www.jaif.or.jp/english/news_imag ... 57872P.pdf



Ordinary seawater contains more than 12 Bq/kg worth of naturally occuring radionuclides. Is MEXT going to advise that swimming in the sea is not safe due to it's high radioactivity?

The Japanese are mad.

Ramsar, Iran on Caspian sea has 10-270 mSv of radiation and has perfectly healthy population.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ramsar,_Mazandaran
It may be taken as the norm for nuclear workers and people near nuclear establishments.

And yet, the Japanese do not relax their standards. They're tightening them, to levels well below background. The consequences of these anal regulations must be realized by the Japanese government. Here's just one sad story:



These people have not killed themselves due to the nuclear accident. They've killed themselves due to anal regulations that do not protect the public but evidently harm it.

. Yes, they are. They are being driven mad by malicious reporting by groups they are SUPPOSED to be able to trust. Somewhat like the USA and the EU.

_________________
DRJ : Engineer - NAVSEA : (Retired)

Spent Fuel Rods Drive Growing Fear Over Plant in Japan

I have often said that honesty and humility are the best policy when it comes to all things nuclear.

_________________
The old Zenith slogan: The quality goes in before the name goes on.

Very few of the public understand what a spent fuel pool is. Fewer can do structural calculations, and fewer still, criticality calculations.

One fears what one does not understand. It doesn't help if those who are supposed to understand, spread fear and half truths.

Oh, and Axil: here's an exercise in honesty and humility for you. Try to calculate the decay heat per spent fuel rod for 14 month old fuel. Then try to see if you can make the fuel rod melt using this decay heat, remembering that the heatup is non-adiabatic.

It seems clear that if every nuclear reactor in the world melted down, and no iodine tablets were issued, that the damage would be far less than coal does all the time.

Meanwhile over at 'The Oil Drum' they continue to drum the absurd notion that as well as oil supplies being relatively limited, 'energy' at any affordable cost is.

Since I reckon that the equivalent of a barrel of oil's worth of energy is produced using something like $5 worth of uranium, the notion seems far fetched.
Accessing it costs, based on the construction costs of the Finnish reactor, around $5,000kw.

Even more weirdly, the actual energy contained in a barrel of oil is contained in maybe 5 cents worth of uranium or so.
People like Dittmar still swear blind that we are going to run out of fuel for reactors though.

None of that stops any of those folk.
BAU is doomed, and according to them civilisation is likely to collapse.
Just the same, the few billion who are likely to die as a result of that is presumably a lesser risk than running nuclear reactors.

Their death-wish is incredible.

Cyril R,

Don’t you believe that honesty and humility is the best policy in all cases?

In the end, the following small incident of deception caused the German nation to lose faith in the nuclear power industry and nuclear experts in general.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pebble_bed_reactor


Summed up in a nut shell, nuclear power has lost credibility in a few but growing number of countries where the opinions of people are important.

If I am wrong about this, please explain why the German and Japanese people are so down on nuclear power.

The proper means and strategies to increasing the prospects of nuclear power including honesty, integrity and humility are more important than the rapid implementation of nuclear power.

As in japan, a strong nuclear power base is no guaranty of longevity. The process of energy choice is essentially political in nature and the rules of politics apply. The arrogance, dishonest, and corrupted will eventually be tossed out and replaced with an alternative.

Those who are intent on advancing nuclear power must look to weed out and denounce the arrogant, dishonest, and corrupt if they want to see nuclear power advance.



It is not the job of those misinformed billions of common folks to know the truth, all they know is that they are being lied to.

It is the job of the nuclear community to police their own in competency, honesty, integrity, and humility knowing that any violation of the public trust either real or perceived can have deadly consequences.

_________________
The old Zenith slogan: The quality goes in before the name goes on.

You have this habit of not answering my questions and changing the subject to unanswerably vague topics.

I don't think this is a good habit of yours, Axil.

You want my honest opinion? I don't see it matters whether the nuclear industry is honest or not. The anti-nukes will just make up lies if they can't find faults. Any rational discussion is stonewalled.

To break this circle, you need to tackle the root cause of all the problems. Which is simply that people don't understand nuclear power. They know only what they hear, which is fearmongering, media speculation, and flat out lies.

It's not about trust. It's about knowledge.