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PostPosted: Dec 14, 2011 5:38 am 
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I'm frustrated by the complete scare stories of trivial amounts of ionizing radiation coming from the nuclear regulator in Japan:

Quote:
An extremely high reading of radioactive cesium has been detected on a
groundsheet at an elementary school in Tokyo.
Officials of Suginami Ward detected 90,600 becquerels per kilogram of
radioactive cesium on the sheet. It was used to protect the school lawn against
frost from March 18th to April 6th, soon after the Fukushima nuclear accident.
The school is located about 230 kilometers from the nuclear plant.
The sheet's radioactivity level is over 11 times the government's 8,000
becquerels-per-kilogram limit for disposal by burying underground.
The city is considering incinerating the sheet with other garbage.
The school stored the sheet next to a gymnasium until early November. Ward
officials who measured radioactivity near the area where the sheet was kept
detected 3.95 microsieverts per hour at about one centimeter above the ground.


This is totally harmless. Even if children lay on the "contaminated" ground there for 4 hours a day every day, which is a rediculous assumption, they are only exposed to 6 mSv/year. This is exactly nothing, a perfectly normal background level of radiation; completely average USA dose is about 6 mSv/year.

http://www.hpa.org.uk/Topics/Radiation/ ... Radiation/

Then there is an even more absurd story that the regulator wants to share with us:

Quote:
Japan's Fukushima Prefecture says a survey shows that radiation exposure levels
among residents near the damaged nuclear plant are low, with little health impact.
The prefecture has been checking the health of its nearly 2-million residents,
focusing on estimates of their external radiation exposure during the 4 months
since the accident at the Fukushima Daiichi nuclear plant.
On Tuesday, the prefecture released the results for 1,727 people in Namie Town,
Iitate Village and a district in Kawamata Town. The municipalities are 10 to 50
kilometers from the plant.
Fukushima says 1,675, or 97 percent, of the people are thought to have been
exposed to less than 5 millisieverts of radiation. 1,084 people are thought to have been exposed to less than one millisievert -- the government's safety limit for one
year.
Nine people are thought to have been exposed to 10 millisieverts or more. Five of
them are nuclear plant workers, among whom the highest level was 37
millisieverts. Of other 4, one who repeatedly visited an evacuation zone was
exposed to 14 millisieverts.


1-37 mSv is in the range of typical CT scans to various organs that are routinely performed in hospitals around the world. Apparently the government thinks it is unsafe to have any CT scan at all, better to die from undiagnosed cancer?

These exposure measurements show the public is safe. How come the regulator doesn't want to state that take-away message out loud?

http://www.jaif.or.jp/english/news_imag ... 52711P.pdf


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PostPosted: Dec 15, 2011 8:48 pm 
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The regulator isn't trusted.


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PostPosted: Mar 24, 2012 6:17 am 
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It just got a lot worse people.

The Japan Atomic Industrial Forum appears to be spreading fear even better than Greenpeace. Here's the most recent environmental impact from Fukushima update:

Quote:
MEXT decided to lower the threshold for cumulative external radiation
permitted at schools and kindergartens to a maximum annual exposure
of 1 mSV.


Quote:
The government is also responsible for bearing
expense for decontamination work in designated 102 municipalities of 8 prefectures, in which additional exposure will excess 1 mSv/year.


For comparison, the natural variation in natural background levels of radiation in Japan is larger than 1 mSv. Japan now has to monitor every mountain due to increased natural cosmic ray exposure? Close down kindergartens in all higher elevations?

Quote:
MAFF decided to allow farmers to plant rice in land where more than 100Bq/kg up to 500 Bq/kg of radioactive substance was detected in rice
harvested last year on condition that a municipality would conduct decontaminate rice paddies according to a plan and create system to check all
bags of rice. 6 of 7 municipalities that have relevant land, except Soma city, decided to plant rice this year. (News of Mar 9)


So they must require that banana fields and a dozen other foodstuffs that contain over 100 Bq/kg of radioactive naturally occuring potassium, be decontantaminated? What's next, regulating granite?

Yes, that appears to be true!

Quote:
Gov’t’s expert panel reached conclusion on standard for gravel shipment. Graval contaminated with radioactive cesium can be shipped as long as level is less than 100 Bq/kg in principle. (News of Feb 28)


Granite typically contains around 1000 Bq/kg of radioactivity. So shipping granite must be illegal now.

Quote:
High levels of radiation, more than 250,000 becquerels per kilogram of radioactive cesium have been detected in male flowers of cedar trees in the no-entry zone near the crippled power plant. According to the forestry agency, if people breathe this concentration for 4 months they would be exposed to 0.553 micro Sv, which is not a great health hazard.


0.5 microsieverts "not a great health hazard". Yes, just like a drop of beer is "not a great health hazard". Natural radiation on this planet lies between 1000 and 300000 microsieverts per year. For Pete's sake, 0.5 microsievert is harmless! Why don't you just say this fair and square, JAIF!!

http://www.jaif.or.jp/english/news_imag ... 05395P.pdf

It is sad that an industrial forum has lost its wits and perspective completely and succumbs to the FUD that is spiralling the world down into an intellectual hellhole. Get ready for more fossil fuels, Japan. You don't regulate those very well. Then again, shipping coal ash must now be illegal too, with its uranium content, soo Fukushima district might drown in its coal ashes soon.


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PostPosted: Mar 25, 2012 9:40 am 
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Japan is in serious trouble. First the demographics of a very rapidly aging population. Then the damage caused by the tsunami. And, now their energy cost are going through the roof because of unwarranted fear of radiation. They better hope they get some strong informed leadership soon. The Prime Minister doesn't seem to be buying all of the fear-mongering. Let's hope for Japan's sake that they finish whatever extra safety precautions are needed and turn on those reactors soon.

Curiously they are still willing to sell reactors and others are willing to buy ... recent news out of Vietnam, etc.


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PostPosted: Mar 26, 2012 7:37 am 
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The IAEA has a nice article with lots of information on naturally occuring radionuclides. This puts in perspective the absurdity of the Japanese new regulations:

http://www.iaea.org/Publications/Magazi ... 693338.pdf

Tea, coffee, ordinary rocks (!), ordinary soil (!) and brick (!) are no longer allowed to be shipped from Fukushima, as per the new legislation. Fertilizer is especially outlawed, being several times higher, at 2200 to 4600 Bq/kg than the highest allowed limit of 500 Bq.

Books are still allowed "in principle" but you must notify the government and ask for permission.

Excuse me. I now have to call the hazardous materials removal agency to remove my garden soil radwaste, before my children get sick.


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PostPosted: Jun 01, 2012 2:50 am 
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Oh man. Just when you think you've heard it all.

http://www.jaif.or.jp/english/news_imag ... 57872P.pdf

Quote:
MEXT express [sic] the view that swing [sic] is safe as long as radioactive substance in water of swimming pool is 10 Becquerel or less per Kilogram, which
is standard value for drinking water. (News of April 11)


Ordinary seawater contains more than 12 Bq/kg worth of naturally occuring radionuclides. Is MEXT going to advise that swimming in the sea is not safe due to it's high radioactivity?

The Japanese are mad.


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PostPosted: Jun 01, 2012 3:19 am 
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Ramsar, Iran on Caspian sea has 10-270 mSv of radiation and has perfectly healthy population.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ramsar,_Mazandaran
It may be taken as the norm for nuclear workers and people near nuclear establishments.


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PostPosted: Jun 01, 2012 3:35 am 
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jagdish wrote:
Ramsar, Iran on Caspian sea has 10-270 mSv of radiation and has perfectly healthy population.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ramsar,_Mazandaran
It may be taken as the norm for nuclear workers and people near nuclear establishments.


And yet, the Japanese do not relax their standards. They're tightening them, to levels well below background. The consequences of these anal regulations must be realized by the Japanese government. Here's just one sad story:

Quote:
A nuclear evacuee from Fukushima Prefecture has been found dead in his
hometown in the no-entry zone, one day after he went missing during a visit to
the area with his wife. Police suspect he committed suicide.
The 62-old-year man was found on Monday afternoon hanging in a storehouse he
owns in Namie Town, near the damaged Fukushima Daiichi nuclear plant.
He went missing after visiting his house and shop on Sunday morning. Local
police officers and firefighters had been searching him.
The man was forced to close his shop after the nuclear accident at the plant in
March last year. Police say he had been telling his family and people close to him
that there was no point in living without prospects for reopening his business. He
had also been expressing a desire to return home and stay there.
The Cabinet Office says 13 residents of Fukushima have killed themselves in the
past 10 months through March for reasons related to last year's earthquake and
tsunami and the ensuing nuclear accident.


These people have not killed themselves due to the nuclear accident. They've killed themselves due to anal regulations that do not protect the public but evidently harm it.


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PostPosted: Jun 01, 2012 8:11 am 
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Cyril R wrote:
The Japanese are mad.
. Yes, they are. They are being driven mad by malicious reporting by groups they are SUPPOSED to be able to trust. Somewhat like the USA and the EU.

_________________
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PostPosted: Jun 03, 2012 12:02 am 
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KitemanSA wrote:
Cyril R wrote:
The Japanese are mad.
. Yes, they are. They are being driven mad by malicious reporting by groups they are SUPPOSED to be able to trust. Somewhat like the USA and the EU.



Spent Fuel Rods Drive Growing Fear Over Plant in Japan

I have often said that honesty and humility are the best policy when it comes to all things nuclear.

_________________
The old Zenith slogan: The quality goes in before the name goes on.


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PostPosted: Jun 03, 2012 1:42 am 
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Axil wrote:
KitemanSA wrote:
Cyril R wrote:
The Japanese are mad.
. Yes, they are. They are being driven mad by malicious reporting by groups they are SUPPOSED to be able to trust. Somewhat like the USA and the EU.



Spent Fuel Rods Drive Growing Fear Over Plant in Japan

I have often said that honesty and humility are the best policy when it comes to all things nuclear.


Very few of the public understand what a spent fuel pool is. Fewer can do structural calculations, and fewer still, criticality calculations.

One fears what one does not understand. It doesn't help if those who are supposed to understand, spread fear and half truths.


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PostPosted: Jun 03, 2012 5:20 am 
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Oh, and Axil: here's an exercise in honesty and humility for you. Try to calculate the decay heat per spent fuel rod for 14 month old fuel. Then try to see if you can make the fuel rod melt using this decay heat, remembering that the heatup is non-adiabatic.


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PostPosted: Jun 03, 2012 11:29 am 
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It seems clear that if every nuclear reactor in the world melted down, and no iodine tablets were issued, that the damage would be far less than coal does all the time.

Meanwhile over at 'The Oil Drum' they continue to drum the absurd notion that as well as oil supplies being relatively limited, 'energy' at any affordable cost is.

Since I reckon that the equivalent of a barrel of oil's worth of energy is produced using something like $5 worth of uranium, the notion seems far fetched.
Accessing it costs, based on the construction costs of the Finnish reactor, around $5,000kw.

Even more weirdly, the actual energy contained in a barrel of oil is contained in maybe 5 cents worth of uranium or so.
People like Dittmar still swear blind that we are going to run out of fuel for reactors though.

None of that stops any of those folk.
BAU is doomed, and according to them civilisation is likely to collapse.
Just the same, the few billion who are likely to die as a result of that is presumably a lesser risk than running nuclear reactors.

Their death-wish is incredible.


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PostPosted: Jun 03, 2012 4:29 pm 
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Cyril R wrote:
Oh, and Axil: here's an exercise in honesty and humility for you. Try to calculate the decay heat per spent fuel rod for 14 month old fuel. Then try to see if you can make the fuel rod melt using this decay heat, remembering that the heatup is non-adiabatic.



Cyril R,

Don’t you believe that honesty and humility is the best policy in all cases?

In the end, the following small incident of deception caused the German nation to lose faith in the nuclear power industry and nuclear experts in general.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pebble_bed_reactor

Quote:
In spite of the limited amount of radioactivity released (0.1 GBq 60Co, 137Cs, 233Pa), the THTR management tried to hide the accident, possibly because this accident pointed to some specific problems with pebble bed reactors, mostly pebble flow and radioactive dust. The management might have thought that the emission would not be detectable due to the Chernobyl fallout happening at the same time. They continued to blame the Chernobyl fallout for all of the contamination found in the surroundings, until the presence of Pa-233 in the vicinity was detected. 233Pa is not formed in uranium reactors, such as Chernobyl, but only in thorium reactors (and also by natural spontaneous fissions with thorium nearby). Thus, step by step, the THTR management report lost all credibility. The radioactivity in the vicinity of the THTR-300 was finally found to result 25% from Chernobyl and 75% from THTR-300. The handling of this minor accident severely damaged the credibility of the German pebble bed community, and pebble bed reactors lost a lot of support in Germany.

Summed up in a nut shell, nuclear power has lost credibility in a few but growing number of countries where the opinions of people are important.

If I am wrong about this, please explain why the German and Japanese people are so down on nuclear power.

The proper means and strategies to increasing the prospects of nuclear power including honesty, integrity and humility are more important than the rapid implementation of nuclear power.

As in japan, a strong nuclear power base is no guaranty of longevity. The process of energy choice is essentially political in nature and the rules of politics apply. The arrogance, dishonest, and corrupted will eventually be tossed out and replaced with an alternative.

Those who are intent on advancing nuclear power must look to weed out and denounce the arrogant, dishonest, and corrupt if they want to see nuclear power advance.

Quote:
None of that stops any of those folk.

BAU is doomed, and according to them civilization is likely to collapse.
Just the same, the few billion who are likely to die as a result of that is presumably a lesser risk than running nuclear reactors.

Their death-wish is incredible.


It is not the job of those misinformed billions of common folks to know the truth, all they know is that they are being lied to.

It is the job of the nuclear community to police their own in competency, honesty, integrity, and humility knowing that any violation of the public trust either real or perceived can have deadly consequences.

_________________
The old Zenith slogan: The quality goes in before the name goes on.


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PostPosted: Jun 04, 2012 5:19 am 
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Axil wrote:
Cyril R wrote:
Oh, and Axil: here's an exercise in honesty and humility for you. Try to calculate the decay heat per spent fuel rod for 14 month old fuel. Then try to see if you can make the fuel rod melt using this decay heat, remembering that the heatup is non-adiabatic.



Cyril R,

Don’t you believe that honesty and humility is the best policy in all cases?



You have this habit of not answering my questions and changing the subject to unanswerably vague topics.

I don't think this is a good habit of yours, Axil.

You want my honest opinion? I don't see it matters whether the nuclear industry is honest or not. The anti-nukes will just make up lies if they can't find faults. Any rational discussion is stonewalled.

To break this circle, you need to tackle the root cause of all the problems. Which is simply that people don't understand nuclear power. They know only what they hear, which is fearmongering, media speculation, and flat out lies.

It's not about trust. It's about knowledge.


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