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 Post subject: New EPRs in the UK
PostPosted: Mar 19, 2013 4:00 pm 
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EDF Energy has received planning permission or the 'go-ahead' from the UK Government to build two EPRs at Hinkley Point in the southwest of England:

http://www.world-nuclear-news.org/NN_UK ... 03131.html

I am just wondering how long it will take for EDF and Areva to build these two reactors. Judging from the experience of the two EPRs being built in Finland and France it may well take 10 years to finish construction.


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 Post subject: Re: New EPRs in the UK
PostPosted: Mar 20, 2013 1:43 am 
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A Russian VVER could have taken less time and money, unless delayed by regulatory formalities. At least they should start the regulatory process now.
They could consider having more of AGR's and run them on Thorium-plutonium fuel to get the value of processing SNF and collecting a plutonium stock. Both or either of these alternatives could reduce the cost of electricity.


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 Post subject: Re: New EPRs in the UK
PostPosted: Mar 21, 2013 8:11 am 
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EDF has not yet given the go-ahead to build. They are trying to extract a future guaranteed price out of the UK Government.

The talked about price looks to be quite high and does a lot to discredit nuclear power. Some figures go over £100/MWhr, which makes it a lot more expensive than most renewables.

I'm inclined to think that the UK Government should tell EDF where to go, set up a company (Govt nuclear power limited) and commission the reactors directly - choosing the best design, which probably won't be the EPWR - and fund it using their low cost of capital.

It won't happen though. Meanwhile, the anti nuclear brigade are pointing to EDF and saying this proves nuclear isn't competitive, we should be building wind farms etc.


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 Post subject: Re: New EPRs in the UK
PostPosted: Mar 22, 2013 12:57 am 
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An EPR built in France is estmated to cost $11.1 billion or 7.4 billion UK pounds. 2 nos VVER built and near commission in India cost nearly 2 billion pounds. It should be possible to build one in the UK for 2 or at the most 3. The electricity should be competitive with that produced by European gas and no strike price required.
The UK govt should reject demand for high price asked for by the EdF and call for tenders for other sites from Russia and China.


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 Post subject: Re: New EPRs in the UK
PostPosted: Mar 22, 2013 2:25 am 
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jagdish wrote:
An EPR built in France is estmated to cost $11.1 billion or 7.4 billion UK pounds. 2 nos VVER built and near commission in India cost nearly 2 billion pounds. It should be possible to build one in the UK for 2 or at the most 3. The electricity should be competitive with that produced by European gas and no strike price required.
The UK govt should reject demand for high price asked for by the EdF and call for tenders for other sites from Russia and China.


Under the current system the UK Government is not choosing the reactor. In theory, EDF could decide to build AP-1100 or something else. Under the current mechanism there's no way for the VVER to be selected. And the system requires a private utility to bear all the political risk which comes at a cost.

That said, with any nuclear build safety and perceived safety is paramount. Choosing a Russian or a Chinese design will worry people, even if they are safer than a EPR. There were also security fears about the possibility of a Chinese design being used in the UK - personally I'd have no issue with an approved Chinese design (we could steal their secrets for a change :) ), but would be concerneed about a reactor reliant on Russian support (not the same as a Russian design), given their track record in using energy as a political tool.

At present it looks like EPWRs, AP1100 and Hitachi ABWR could be built. I found an interesting article on the construction challenges: http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-somerset-21687437. The big question is will they be able to learn lessons from the other two EPRs in Europe (and those in China).


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 Post subject: Re: New EPRs in the UK
PostPosted: Mar 22, 2013 4:49 am 
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Areva also offers a passive LWR, the Kerena reactor system. I wonder why they are not mentioning that. It has full passive safety in addition to redundant active safety, it even needs no I&C for safe shutdown. The reactor is much simpler than the EPR. Seems a much easier sell than the complicated EPR reliant on safety grade IC, especially with the experience of Olkiluoto in that regard.


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 Post subject: Re: New EPRs in the UK
PostPosted: Mar 22, 2013 8:18 am 
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This is the first time I heard of Kerena. Looking at some of the descriptions it seems a better bet than EPR. I assume the EPR is further down the regualtory process and Kerena is Areva's fall back in case EPR can't overcome its first-of-a-kind issues.


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 Post subject: Re: New EPRs in the UK
PostPosted: Mar 22, 2013 9:00 am 
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alexterrell wrote:
This is the first time I heard of Kerena. Looking at some of the descriptions it seems a better bet than EPR. I assume the EPR is further down the regualtory process and Kerena is Areva's fall back in case EPR can't overcome its first-of-a-kind issues.


I think they designed it with a smaller market - medium size - in mind. Actually it's 1250 MWe which is pretty big, but the French think big when it comes to nuclear reactors. Some utilities also have mostly BWRs, so they might be more interested in buying a BWR than a PWR.

Here is a summary of the design, it was previously called the SWR1000 reactor, Siedewasser Reaktor is German for boiling water reactor:

http://www.areva-np.com/common/liblocal ... t_engl.pdf

This seems much easier to sell to the public (for instance not needing electrical power for anything including shutdown signals makes the whole Fukushima scenario impossible).


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 Post subject: Re: New EPRs in the UK
PostPosted: Mar 22, 2013 1:11 pm 
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Kerena is BRW, but they have a medium sized PWR Atmea1:
http://www.areva.com/EN/global-offer-41 ... works.html

Had Areva offered Atmea for the Temelin project, they could have a strong position. And everybody told them. It seems they are pushing EPR for some reason.


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 Post subject: Re: New EPRs in the UK
PostPosted: Mar 22, 2013 1:57 pm 
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ondrejch wrote:
Kerena is BRW, but they have a medium sized PWR Atmea1:
http://www.areva.com/EN/global-offer-41 ... works.html

Had Areva offered Atmea for the Temelin project, they could have a strong position. And everybody told them. It seems they are pushing EPR for some reason.


Atmea appears just a downsized EPR, with only slight differences. No passive safety. Such an offering wouldn't be very interesting, considering you could get a similar rated AP1000 with passive safety that is already being built in the US and China. Atmea is a bit boring (just my opinion), and seems to be two steps behind in the market. Kerena would at least offer passive redunant safety and being a BWR would serve a different potential market that Areva could extend its business in.


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 Post subject: Re: New EPRs in the UK
PostPosted: Mar 24, 2013 5:32 am 
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Cyril R wrote:
alexterrell wrote:
This is the first time I heard of Kerena. Looking at some of the descriptions it seems a better bet than EPR. I assume the EPR is further down the regualtory process and Kerena is Areva's fall back in case EPR can't overcome its first-of-a-kind issues.


I think they designed it with a smaller market - medium size - in mind. Actually it's 1250 MWe which is pretty big, but the French think big when it comes to nuclear reactors. Some utilities also have mostly BWRs, so they might be more interested in buying a BWR than a PWR.

Here is a summary of the design, it was previously called the SWR1000 reactor, Siedewasser Reaktor is German for boiling water reactor:

http://www.areva-np.com/common/liblocal ... t_engl.pdf

This seems much easier to sell to the public (for instance not needing electrical power for anything including shutdown signals makes the whole Fukushima scenario impossible).


The SWR1000 was designed by Siemens/KWU and German utilities. Siemens later decided to merge its nuclear business with Framatome (what is now Areva NP), because the outlook for nuclear was bleak in Germany. Later on, it pulled out of its joint venture with Framatome. Perhaps it is important to note that Framatome (acronym for Société Franco-Américaine de Constructions Atomiques) was established together with Westinghouse in 1958 to develop and build PWRs in France. France is now basically a PWR-only country and I think the Kerena/SWR1000 is something of a stepchild within Areva. Areva has little or no experience with BWRs.


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 Post subject: Re: New EPRs in the UK
PostPosted: Mar 27, 2013 2:15 am 
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With bulging stocks of RG Plutonium, the British should follow the offer of Prism. After the first couple of reactors built by the suppliers, they could just buy the hardware and build it themselves. Being smaller, the British utilities may find it possible to finance them. Later, they could buy the processing plants too. At least they will not be tied up by strike prices.


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 Post subject: Re: New EPRs in the UK
PostPosted: Mar 27, 2013 8:17 am 
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If the goal is to consume the plutonium I'd argue that almost any MSR variant (including thermal spectrum) would do a better job than a PRISM in polishing off the plutonium. A PRISM is designed to make MORE plutonium than what you've got. It is poor (by design) at getting rid of the stuff.

Feed a two-fluid LFTR plutonium in the fuel salt and harvest U-233 from the blanket. That's the fastest and best way I can think of to transition from uranium-plutonium to the thorium fuel cycle.


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 Post subject: Re: New EPRs in the UK
PostPosted: Mar 27, 2013 11:37 pm 
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The goal should only be nuclear energy after the protracted decisions. Early availability is also a factor.
Prism is already offered for construction. It will also use recovered uranium and help reduce the 'Waste' stocks.
For early deployment, the LFTR could use FNaBe instead of FLiBe while the fissile stocks permit. However, the molten salt engineering may need further development.


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 Post subject: Re: New EPRs in the UK
PostPosted: Mar 28, 2013 1:43 am 
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http://www.world-nuclear-news.org/NP-UK ... 60313.html
The WNA seem to be quite happy with the way things are going.


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