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PostPosted: Dec 04, 2013 3:58 pm 
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Joined: Oct 28, 2013 12:24 am
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Helen Caldicott Foundation


I didn't know the existence of this foundation. I will see how that looks.


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PostPosted: Dec 04, 2013 6:53 pm 
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Joined: Dec 16, 2011 7:27 am
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Cyril R wrote:
A single moron can state more lies than 10 wise man can rebut.

Don't bother with anything sponsored by the "Helen Caldicott Foundation".

We need to focus our attention to the masses. Not to these religious morons with their infinite lies (LNT, irrelevant facts, etc.). Don't waste your time with fantatics. That's not where the gain is to be had.


It's hard to see people like Helen Caldicott as being remotely rational, going through this long exchange between the journalist George Monbiot and Helen Caldicott, you can see how she constantly warps reality to fit her beliefs. To Monbiot's credit he doesn't let up and went to a great deal of effort to determine just how accurate Caldicott's claims were. Some of the sources she cites contradict her and in some cases her own books.

http://www.monbiot.com/2011/04/04/corre ... caldicott/

How do you discuss the facts around nuclear power with anti-nukes who take a no-compromise approach with their beliefs.

We need to communicate to people who still have open minds.


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PostPosted: Dec 04, 2013 7:45 pm 
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I post occasionally on the anti-pages to let the casual reader know that there are other points of view. I counter the anti-posts on pro pages to do the same thing.

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DRJ : Engineer - NAVSEA : (Retired)


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PostPosted: Dec 05, 2013 12:02 am 
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Joined: Mar 22, 2013 1:50 pm
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DougC wrote:
Cyril R wrote:
A single moron can state more lies than 10 wise man can rebut.

Don't bother with anything sponsored by the "Helen Caldicott Foundation".

We need to focus our attention to the masses. Not to these religious morons with their infinite lies (LNT, irrelevant facts, etc.). Don't waste your time with fantatics. That's not where the gain is to be had.

How do you discuss the facts around nuclear power with anti-nukes who take a no-compromise approach with their beliefs.


Use their beliefs against them....
for example perhaps they fear the great chinese dragon
explain to them china is building so many nuclear plants, that in 20 years the nuclear powered dragon will have the biggest economy in the world, and usa/europe will still be burning coal and usa/europe will be forced to buy solar panels from china, to replace solar panels killed by wind and hailstorms.

perhaps they fear cancer
explain that there are rare isotopes that can be mass produced by nuclear reactors
and without these rare isotopes there is no chance to ever find the cure
(the above statement is a very slim chance)
or explain that CANCER is proven to be caused by petroleum, coal dust, and caustic gases released when burning hydrocarbons
or that the heavy metals used in solar panels will contaminate groundwater
and that fracking for natural gas will also contaminate ground water


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PostPosted: Dec 05, 2013 3:01 am 
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Joined: May 15, 2011 12:06 am
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This discussion reminds me of a panel discussion on politics that I recently watched (actually I read the transcript) called Winning the Cultural War.

http://www.frontpagemag.com/2013/frontp ... tural-war/

It's long, but I thought it was well worth reading (or watching). It is about the cultural war that Republicans face since the "mainstream media" is dominated by "liberals," "leftists," "progressives," or whatever you want to call them. And it not just the news, but movies and TV entertainment too.

During the 2012 campaign, Romney talked policy, but he didn't stand a chance because the media now routinely depicts businessmen as greedy bastards, and the Obama campaign successfully painted Romney as a wealthy "vulture capitalist" who would slit his own mother's throat to make a profit. Never mind that Romney gave away his inherited fortune and made a fortune of his own, and that he gives a big chunk of his income to charity. And never mind that John Kerry, the Democratic candidate from back in 2004, married into ultra-wealth not once but twice, yet gives a much smaller chunk of his fortune to charity. No, none of that matters to the "low-information" voter who just didn't like Romney because in their gut they knew that he's a greedy businessman -- but of course Kerry was not a businessman, so he's OK!

The situation is very similar to what we face with public attitudes to nuclear power. A large segment of the population simply "knows" that it is dirty and extremely dangerous. Facts don't matter to them because their opinions are not based on facts. They are based on impressions they've gotten from movies and TV, including both news and entertainment. People laugh at the Simpsons, but the cartoonish depiction of a nuclear power plant actually reinforces the common misconceptions about nuclear power. And the Fukushima alarmist stories that are springing up everywhere also reinforce those impressions. If you try to put the Fukushima radiation levels into perspective, they are offended and may call you nasty names. To them, it's like saying that drinking mercury is perfectly safe. It just doesn't compute, and if offends the sense of moral outrage that they've developed toward the greedy nuclear power industry that is willing to put "profits above people."

What can be done about it? I don't know. We need to keep getting the facts out there, but we also need to win the culture war -- as the panel discussion linked above discusses. And how do we do that? That's a tough one, and this post is already too long anyway!


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PostPosted: Dec 05, 2013 8:02 am 
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Russ wrote:
What can be done about it? I don't know. We need to keep getting the facts out there, but we also need to win the culture war -- as the panel discussion linked above discusses. And how do we do that? That's a tough one, and this post is already too long anyway!


We don't need to do it really.

China will do it for us, we just have to wait a bit. In 20 years cities will be able to buy micro nuclear plants from China. China will make so much money from smaller reactors that the world will be forced to compete properly with nuclear power.

Competition usually makes people take notice and change their foolish ways, or they get sent into poverty where they cannot have much influence.


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