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 Post subject: LFTR and Water?
PostPosted: Aug 26, 2014 2:15 pm 
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Joined: Aug 24, 2014 11:23 am
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New member here, no technical background but like many of you I suspect I have enough general knowledge to understand a lot of the issues involved in the topics at hand.

Something I've been curious about, desalination has long been mentioned as something you could accomplish with the waste heat from LFTR after it's been used to drive turbines. Given a typical public utility sized LFTR plant (say 500MW?) how much desalinated water could sucks planet generate?

Taken a step further, if we considered Southern California, an area of the planet suffering both electrical and water supply issues, if suddenly all of the LA basin was electrified by LFTR, how much water would that supply?


Last edited by CJL on Aug 26, 2014 11:00 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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 Post subject: Re: LFTR and Water?
PostPosted: Aug 26, 2014 3:29 pm 
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Location: Newport Beach, CA
There are a couple of threads that have discussed similar ideas. The amount of water produced depends heavily on what desalination method you use. I'm not really sure if cogeneration makes much sense, unless you were to do it in a binary way (i.e. desal during the midday load lull, full power production otherwise). Reverse Osmosis looks like the most efficient method to use at 3-5.5 kWh/m^3.

A 500MWe plant could make as much as 90,000 cubic meters of desalinated water per hour, unless my math is badly off.

http://www.energyfromthorium.com/forum/viewtopic.php?f=2&t=4377&hilit=desalination

http://www.energyfromthorium.com/forum/viewtopic.php?f=7&t=4384&p=58518&hilit=desalination#p58518

http://www.energyfromthorium.com/forum/viewtopic.php?f=17&t=4425&p=59263&hilit=desalination#p59263


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 Post subject: Re: LFTR and Water?
PostPosted: Aug 26, 2014 4:28 pm 
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Location: Alabama
CJL wrote:
Taken a step further, if we considered Southern California, an area of the planet suffering both electrical and water supply issues, if suddenly all of the LA basic was electrified by LFTR, how much water would that supply?


California has banned new nuclear power plants and is doing all they can to shut down the last one that they have, so entertain no hopes about nuclear desalination coming to the rescue of the drought situation there.


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 Post subject: Re: LFTR and Water?
PostPosted: Aug 26, 2014 7:01 pm 
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Forward Osmosis also looks interesting.
All it needs is heat to drive out the ammonium carbonate or similar solution.

And if there is one thing nuclear plants are even better at than pumping out electricity it is low grade steam.


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 Post subject: Re: LFTR and Water?
PostPosted: Aug 26, 2014 7:52 pm 
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Kirk Sorensen wrote:
CJL wrote:
Taken a step further, if we considered Southern California, an area of the planet suffering both electrical and water supply issues, if suddenly all of the LA basic was electrified by LFTR, how much water would that supply?


California has banned new nuclear power plants and is doing all they can to shut down the last one that they have, so entertain no hopes about nuclear desalination coming to the rescue of the drought situation there.

Oh, no doubt. Far be it for Californians, totally in thrall to the mind numbing diatribes of certain environmentalists, to do something so sensible.


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 Post subject: Re: LFTR and Water?
PostPosted: Aug 26, 2014 11:55 pm 
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Russia and China are building floating power plants. Such a plant could be anchored off the California coast and sell power and desalinated water to coastal communities.
Will the Californians impose a ban on such imports? Maybe these services could be smuggled through Mexico?


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 Post subject: Re: LFTR and Water?
PostPosted: Aug 26, 2014 11:56 pm 
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Joined: Apr 25, 2014 11:31 am
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Location: Portland Oregon
CJL wrote:
Kirk Sorensen wrote:
California has banned new nuclear power plants and is doing all they can to shut down the last one that they have, so entertain no hopes about nuclear desalination coming to the rescue of the drought situation there.

Oh, no doubt. Far be it for Californians, totally in thrall to the mind numbing diatribes of certain environmentalists, to do something so sensible.

Well, just wait until everyone else is coming on line with LFTR, and Oregon again says "NO, you can't pipe the water from the Columbia River to LA, we already ship our hydro-power to you." The tune will change. But I suspect not before that. As you probably know, most of the Colorado River never makes it to the sea. The irony and sad part is that they could really use LFTR for water and of course power that could reduce their pollution issues.


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 Post subject: Re: LFTR and Water?
PostPosted: Aug 27, 2014 4:09 am 
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The situation you describe is decades away, even if everything goes well.


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 Post subject: Re: LFTR and Water?
PostPosted: Aug 27, 2014 11:21 am 
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Location: Portland Oregon
Kirk Sorensen wrote:
The situation you describe is decades away, even if everything goes well.

Yes, yes it is. It takes time for attitudes to change, but I believe that they will change in time. Of course, that does not help us right now. So I guess my comment is a mixture of cynicism, frustration and optimism.


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 Post subject: Re: LFTR and Water?
PostPosted: Aug 27, 2014 11:30 pm 
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There is an underlying fact-more energy is required to manage water and other problem. The nuclear is the least messy in terms of the footprint and with maximum political opposition.
LFTR is a new nuclear design with its own problems.


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 Post subject: Re: LFTR and Water?
PostPosted: Aug 28, 2014 7:26 pm 
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We now have 1200kV AC power lines and 1000kV DC is within sight (there is a lot of development work going on at ABB right now) which would enable power transmission distances so long that it is almost irrelevant where the power plants are if you can secure the site and the line to the load area.

1000kV DC would make it plausible to connect the UK to the grid of NF&L Hydro or even Quebec Hydro.


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 Post subject: Re: LFTR and Water?
PostPosted: Aug 29, 2014 3:27 am 
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@Ireland,
Wait, are you talking shielded underwater high power lines going across the Atlantic?


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 Post subject: Re: LFTR and Water?
PostPosted: Aug 29, 2014 3:29 am 
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E Ireland wrote:
We now have 1200kV AC power lines and 1000kV DC is within sight (there is a lot of development work going on at ABB right now) which would enable power transmission distances so long that it is almost irrelevant where the power plants are if you can secure the site and the line to the load area.

1000kV DC would make it plausible to connect the UK to the grid of NF&L Hydro or even Quebec Hydro.


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 Post subject: Re: LFTR and Water?
PostPosted: Aug 29, 2014 3:31 am 
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Kirk Sorensen wrote:
The situation you describe is decades away, even if everything goes well.


Maybe NOT?

http://energyfromthorium.com/2014/03/21 ... -the-race/


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 Post subject: Re: LFTR and Water?
PostPosted: Aug 29, 2014 5:08 am 
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Joshua Maurice wrote:
@Ireland,
Wait, are you talking shielded underwater high power lines going across the Atlantic?

Why not? We have now got HVDC projects putting cables in 2000m or more of water, on the abyssal plain in the Mediterranean.
It seems to indicate that there are unlikely to be any showstoppers about running a similar cable from Scotland/Northern Ireland to Labrador - where it could be connected to the proposed additional projects in the Churchill Falls area.

A domestic customer for NF&L Hydro spends roughly 9 Canadian Cents per kWh for electricity.
I pay nearly 25.


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