Energy From Thorium Discussion Forum

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 Post subject: Re: MSR staff numbers
PostPosted: Sep 10, 2015 3:30 pm 
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Joined: Sep 22, 2013 2:27 pm
Posts: 262
Alex...

I would not press on the staffing of an MSR. It does not really matter if you have a 200, 300 or 400 poeple crew for a large power plant.

A more important topic is the operation time between maintenance periods, the reliability and the loss of operation time due to maintenance. A large nuclear power plant makes > 1 million $/day.

If you can increase the reliability of pumps, motors and instrumentation (high temperatures!) that you can run 4 years between maintenance periods it would give a huge benefit.

If you can develop remote controlled robots (please be aware that the primary circuit is radioactive due to plated out fission products or even worse if you use thorium (232U)) for maintenance and repair it would be a big asset.

If you can simplify the fuel treatment of a MSR it would decrease capital cost and as well maintenance and repair costs.

Question: You spoke about stainless steel...Are you evaluating an active (cathodic) corrosion protection?


Last edited by HolgerNarrog on Sep 11, 2015 9:30 am, edited 1 time in total.

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 Post subject: Re: MSR staff numbers
PostPosted: Sep 10, 2015 3:48 pm 
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Joined: Jun 19, 2013 11:49 am
Posts: 1521
In other words, build a DMSR.


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 Post subject: Re: MSR staff numbers
PostPosted: Sep 11, 2015 5:01 pm 
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Joined: Sep 02, 2009 10:24 am
Posts: 509
HolgerNarrog wrote:
Alex...

I would not press on the staffing of an MSR. It does not really matter if you have a 200, 300 or 400 poeple crew for a large power plant.

200 staff for a 1GWe reactor will add about $3 / £2 to a MWh.

The additional costs of supporting these staff would a similar amount - hard to quantify - so we're looking maybe at $5/MWh.

Thorcon for example is aiming for below $40/MWh, so staff costs are fairly significant, if not over riding.

Quote:


A more important topic is the operation time between maintenance periods, the reliability and the loss of operation time due to maintenance. A large nuclear power plant makes > 1 million $/day.

If you can increase the reliability of pumps, motors and instrumentation (high temperatures!) that you can run 4 years between maintenance periods it would give a huge benefit.

Yes, that's important. Also in many cases it's important for safety to automate a lot of the control operations. As with flying, computers manage routine operations much more safely than humans - or are there for non-routine events.
Quote:
If you can develop remote controlled robots (please be aware that the primary circuit is radioactive due to plated out fission products or even worse if you use thorium (232U)) for maintenance and repair it would be a big asset.

Alternatively pull out the primary circuit and replace it with a new one, which is the ThorCon and Terrestrial approach.

Quote:
If you can simplify the fuel treatment of a MSR it would decrease capital cost and as well maintenance and repair costs.

The first step is to get rid of precison engineered solid fuel rods. MSRs all do that.

Quote:
Question: You spoke about stainless steel...Are you evaluating an active (cathodic) corrosion protection?


It's been looked at in some of the companies, but I believe ORNL aimed for a slight excess of +ions by adding Bereyllium (if i recall rightly).


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 Post subject: Re: MSR staff numbers
PostPosted: Oct 29, 2015 12:18 am 
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Joined: May 24, 2009 4:42 am
Posts: 823
Location: Calgary, Alberta
Quote:
How many would a 1 GWe MSR NPP have?
-Staffing requirement for turbine hall
-Staffing requirement for nuclear island
-Staffing for electrical systems
-Staffing requirement for overall site
- Security
- Staff support (canteen etc, a multiple of the above)
- Offsite administrative staff
- Chemical engineering if there is on-site fuel reprocessing

We're running a modern 800 MW CCGT facility with three on shift for the entire plant and that's a plant that cycles one GT off and on frequently.

For a MSR NPP ~1 GWe
Outside Operators covering the water treatment plant, turbine hall and cooling tower. 3 per shift
Control Room, 1 panel operator and 1 shift supervisor. 2 per shift
Nuclear Island, 0 per shift (no access)
Salt processing, 3 per shift
Security, 5 per shift (pure guesswork)

Dayshift Resources
Chemical Engineers 3, one always on call
Maintenance Manager 1
Maintenance Scheduler 1
Mechanical Technicians 4, one always on call
I&C Technicians 4, one always on call
Electrical Technicians 3
Warehouse Supervisor 1

Operations Manager 1
Assistant Operations Manager 1
Plant Manager 1

QA Department including NRC liaison 4
Plant Engineer Mechanical 1
Plant Engineer Electrical 1
Plant Engineer I&C 1

Plant Administrators 3
Canteen staff 0 or 3

These are all for normal operations, every role would have a backup to call on from head office if required. Major outages would be handled by a major maintenance team from head office who would provide direct supervision of contract staff used to execute major maintenance work in collaboration with plant staff. Head office would also supply specialized engineering, mechanical, electrical and nuclear inspectors. Supply chain management, EHS specialist support, accounts payable, HR and payroll, emergency response planning and resourcing would all be head office functions.

The head office FTE number providing support services would be similar to that required for day to day operation on site. There are many ways that these resources could be arranged, this is just one man's view based on the expectation of modern equipment and controls that remain on line for up to 3 - 4 years at a time.


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 Post subject: Re: MSR staff numbers
PostPosted: Oct 30, 2015 5:45 am 
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Joined: Sep 02, 2009 10:24 am
Posts: 509
Thanks Lindsay.


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 Post subject: Re: MSR staff numbers
PostPosted: Oct 30, 2015 11:32 am 
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Joined: Jun 19, 2013 11:49 am
Posts: 1521
As said above you'd probably want a non plant electrician and plumber on site.
Would save a tonne on on call electrician costs which are always ripoffs.


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