Energy From Thorium Discussion Forum

It is currently May 25, 2018 11:23 pm

All times are UTC - 6 hours [ DST ]




Post new topic Reply to topic  [ 7 posts ] 
Author Message
 Post subject: Pipedreams galore
PostPosted: Nov 26, 2014 2:36 pm 
Offline

Joined: Dec 26, 2011 7:56 am
Posts: 114
Location: EU
the newest in environmentalism day dreaming

http://www.iflscience.com/technology/pl ... y-unveiled



this thread is for posting the worst ideas farfetched by the green cultists.

_________________
PiageT : "Toujours faire mieux que necessaire"


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: Pipedreams galore
PostPosted: Nov 26, 2014 3:05 pm 
Offline

Joined: Sep 15, 2011 7:58 pm
Posts: 186
I got dibbs on orbital solar.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Space-based_solar_power


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: Pipedreams galore
PostPosted: Nov 27, 2014 5:46 pm 
Offline
User avatar

Joined: Dec 29, 2011 10:14 am
Posts: 217
What's the deal with so-called Blue Energy using the electrostatic potential between fresh and salt water? The Netherlands is touting a new plant providing electrical power from this technology. Intuitively, the level of power seems to be in eV range per unit interaction so a large amount of output would require a huge amount of water... anyone do any calculations on this technology? Cost analysis?


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: Pipedreams galore
PostPosted: Nov 28, 2014 12:02 am 
Offline

Joined: Jun 05, 2011 6:59 pm
Posts: 1332
Location: NoOPWA
There is a salinity effective head of about 700 ft between riverwater and sea water. With the proper systems, that head can be turned into useful energy equivalent to a 700 ft dam. But so far, the mechanisms to do it are excessively expensive.

_________________
DRJ : Engineer - NAVSEA : (Retired)


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: Pipedreams galore
PostPosted: Nov 28, 2014 8:06 am 
Offline

Joined: Jul 14, 2008 3:12 pm
Posts: 5058
rc1111 wrote:
What's the deal with so-called Blue Energy using the electrostatic potential between fresh and salt water? The Netherlands is touting a new plant providing electrical power from this technology. Intuitively, the level of power seems to be in eV range per unit interaction so a large amount of output would require a huge amount of water... anyone do any calculations on this technology? Cost analysis?


It works, technically, and is theoretically a good energy source. Its reliable and compact, doesn't need ginormous dams and has decent yearly output, though it is dependent on the river flow variations throughout the year.

The cost needs to come down. This is plausible because the system relies on membranes which have good "learning curves". They are modular and can be quickly developed and optimized and then mass produced... a small installation is now operational in our biggest sea wall, separating the artificial inland freshwater lake from the north sea.

Amidst all the cheering however, there is little critical review of blue energy. It shares many of the ecological problems of hydro-electric dams. Namely isolation in sensitive ecosystems. This isn't always an issue but the area where salt and fresh water meet is typically a sensitive ecosystem with many species being dependent on travelling up or down the river, into or out of the sea. Blocking that off gets bad ecologically, really quickly.

A more inherent problem is this. The theoretical potential is quite limited. I've seen estimates for here in Holland, of about 15% of the total electrical consumption. That's just electrical, which is a small fraction of primary energy needs. So best case scenario is, it works and is cost effective, but is like hydro-electric: not enough to power the world with it. Worst case scenario is it won't reliably work because of all the clogging of membranes, cost is too high etc.


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: Pipedreams galore
PostPosted: Nov 28, 2014 12:00 pm 
Offline

Joined: Apr 19, 2008 1:06 am
Posts: 2233
A far better idea than salt concentrations and also the highly popular wind is the energy of ocean currents. It would be the big brother of river hydro. Water carries enormous energy and water mills will be more energy intensive than the windmills. We can place them below the depths required for shipping. They can be water lubricated and power conveyed to shore by cables. I wonder why this has not been put into practice when people are tilting at the windmills and trying to domesticate the unreliable waves.


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: Pipedreams galore
PostPosted: Nov 28, 2014 3:54 pm 
Offline

Joined: Jul 14, 2008 3:12 pm
Posts: 5058
jagdish wrote:
A far better idea than salt concentrations and also the highly popular wind is the energy of ocean currents. It would be the big brother of river hydro. Water carries enormous energy and water mills will be more energy intensive than the windmills. We can place them below the depths required for shipping. They can be water lubricated and power conveyed to shore by cables. I wonder why this has not been put into practice when people are tilting at the windmills and trying to domesticate the unreliable waves.


The answer is very simple. Too expensive to make these things operate reliably in a heavy marine environment. Too expensive to make, too expensive to install, to expensive to maintain. The open sea is a nasty place. Doing even the simplest repairs or checks becomes a high risk high cost mission.


Top
 Profile  
 
Display posts from previous:  Sort by  
Post new topic Reply to topic  [ 7 posts ] 

All times are UTC - 6 hours [ DST ]


Who is online

Users browsing this forum: No registered users and 3 guests


You cannot post new topics in this forum
You cannot reply to topics in this forum
You cannot edit your posts in this forum
You cannot delete your posts in this forum
You cannot post attachments in this forum

Search for:
Jump to:  
cron
Powered by phpBB® Forum Software © phpBB Group