60 Minutes segment on Fukushima

Russ
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60 Minutes segment on Fukushima

Post by Russ » Apr 12, 2014 12:50 am

http://www.cbsnews.com/news/fukushima-j ... 0-minutes/

I just watched this segment online. Whether intentionally deceptive or not, it is a classic example of media coverage that causes the public to have a severely distorted view of nuclear power.

It shows many scenes of people visiting their old homes wearing radiation suits and masks, but of course it never once mentions the levels of radiation. That would be too "technical" I guess. Is the radiation gear really necessary? My understanding is that the radiation in the communities around Fukushima was under the "Denver dose" level within months of the disaster. In other words, the excess radiation exposure there is less than one would get from living in Denver. But all the radiation suits and masks create a frightening image. After all, no one wears those things in downtown Denver as far as I know.

The segment also combines sad stories of people who died in the tsunami with stories about the nuclear disaster. Intentional or not, this intermingling of stories gives the vague impression that the thousands of deaths somehow had some connection with the nuclear meltdown. I'll bet that a large fraction of the viewers associate the carnage from the tsunami with the reactor meltdown -- either conscously or unconsciously. In their minds, nuclear power just seems to be associated with catastrophic events.

If nuclear power is to have any chance of a comback, someone needs to effectively counter this kind of distorted coverage.

Per Peterson
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Re: 60 Minutes segment on Fukushima

Post by Per Peterson » Apr 12, 2014 2:48 am

There are many issues with the accident at Fukushima.

The reason that this show includes a focus on the nuclear part of the disaster that happened due to the Great Eastern Japan Earthquake and the tsunami the that followed is that large amounts of cesium-137 were released from the reactor containments (contamination by cesium is the cause of the land-use restrictions at Chernobyl and Fukushima).

It is worthwhile to note that in fluoride-salt cooled, and also fueled, reactors, cesium is bound up as an extremely stable and immobile fluoride salt, instead of forming aerosol particles as occurs when LWR fuel melts due to the volatility of cesium in high temperature environments with steam and oxygen.

The long-term ground contamination caused by Fukushima accident would have been far less likely if the reactors had had the passive-safety characteristics of the AP-1000. The long-term contamination would have been impossible if these reactors had been FHRs or MSRs using fluoride salts, because even in an extreme accident condition, in reactors that use fluoride salts rather than water cesium is immobilized.

Cyril R
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Re: 60 Minutes segment on Fukushima

Post by Cyril R » Apr 12, 2014 4:51 am

The worst contaminated areas around Fukushima are around 0.5 mSv/day. This is considerably less than some beaches in Brazil, where oddly enough people walk around in swimming trunks rather than hazmat suits.

The sad reality is that air pollution - ironically almost all of it from fossil fuel waste dumping into the air - in Tokyo for example is a lot more dangerous to health than the worst contaminated areas around Fukushima. Mainly because the latter areas are rural and small village/city scapes, that have less pollution than Tokyo.

Oddly enough no politicians have suggested to evacuate Tokyo yet. Even though tens of millions of people that are at greater risk than anywhere in Fukushima.

The debate on Fukushima is horrible. I've been trying to fix Wikipedia articles that are nothing less than slander and half truths and biased apples to oranges comparisons. But the damage is too pervasive. Its like trying to battle a global virus with a handful of experts while everyone else in the world is running around like decapitated chickens. For every journalist or blogger that writes factually on Fukushima, there are 100 if not 1000 that spread half truths, apples and oranges analysis, and more often even just bald faced lies.

One of the things that was good, technically, about Fukushima is that there were very few mechanical and structural failures. The power was lost so electrical systems were inoperable or short circuited. But there were few mechanical and structural failures, despite the beyond design basis earthquake and tsunami. The containment, valves, steam driven turbines for emergency cooling, all held well above its design pressure/temperature range, only at multiples of the design pressure was there a leak of hydrogen and radioactive gasses and volatiles. This is good news. It means that if we have a passive cooling then with that improvement alone, we prevent Fukushima type scenarios.

Fukushima is preventable. This is an important sales pitch for nuclear power.

cerebral
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Re: 60 Minutes segment on Fukushima

Post by cerebral » Apr 12, 2014 5:38 am

anyone smelling a conspiracy? 3/11/2011. Sounds very much like call 9/11.
I still wonder how you can generate an earthquake or if not manipulate dates and news coverage in such a big style.
9/11 was already a master coup, but that would be actually a number bigger.
If you still do not know or shut your eyes before the ugly truth take a deep breath and be courageous.
http://www.ae911truth.org/de/home.html

Cyril R
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Re: 60 Minutes segment on Fukushima

Post by Cyril R » Apr 12, 2014 5:54 am

cerebral wrote:anyone smelling a conspiracy? 3/11/2011. Sounds very much like call 9/11.
I still wonder how you can generate an earthquake or if not manipulate dates and news coverage in such a big style.
9/11 was already a master coup, but that would be actually a number bigger.
If you still do not know or shut your eyes before the ugly truth take a deep breath and be courageous.
http://www.ae911truth.org/de/home.html
It's a cultural thing really, and possibly - dreadfully - an intellectual thing.
A Scripps-Howard poll of 1,010 adults last month found that 36% of Americans consider it ‘very likely’ or ‘somewhat likely’ that government officials either allowed the attacks to be carried out or carried out the attacks themselves.
Americans love a good conspirary theory. To the point of being quite scary and looking rather stupid to other countries.

Can we now go back on topic and shut off the stupidity faucet?

Thank you.

cerebral
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Re: 60 Minutes segment on Fukushima

Post by cerebral » Apr 12, 2014 6:09 am

turning back to topic is a good idea. But calling consciousness and awareness instinct a stupidity....well that's...
some people don't believe such things because they thought counting to the elite they should know about such things...hearing about sth like that afterwards feels like being cheated and they cant get over their egos. I notice that behaviour very often on academic people.
But lets stop that theme.

KitemanSA
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Re: 60 Minutes segment on Fukushima

Post by KitemanSA » Apr 12, 2014 6:06 pm

Cyril R wrote:The debate on Fukushima is horrible. I've been trying to fix Wikipedia articles that are nothing less than slander and half truths and biased apples to oranges comparisons. But the damage is too pervasive. Its like trying to battle a global virus with a handful of experts while everyone else in the world is running around like decapitated chickens.
At least with the Wikipedia, if you see something wrong it can be chanced, or at least modified. If you are interested, you may want to start listing the articles that need correcting here and seek help.
DRJ : Engineer - NAVSEA : (Retired)

Cyril R
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Re: 60 Minutes segment on Fukushima

Post by Cyril R » Apr 13, 2014 1:49 am

KitemanSA wrote:
Cyril R wrote:The debate on Fukushima is horrible. I've been trying to fix Wikipedia articles that are nothing less than slander and half truths and biased apples to oranges comparisons. But the damage is too pervasive. Its like trying to battle a global virus with a handful of experts while everyone else in the world is running around like decapitated chickens.
At least with the Wikipedia, if you see something wrong it can be chanced, or at least modified. If you are interested, you may want to start listing the articles that need correcting here and seek help.
The problem is that there is a cadre of anti-nuclear writers who have taken most of the main articles hostage. Any changes you make will just be mass-undone uncritically. Whereas all critical questions you can pose about existing passages, will not be listened to.

Which articles are involved, sadly all of them that have the word "fukushima" in it.

KitemanSA
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Re: 60 Minutes segment on Fukushima

Post by KitemanSA » Apr 13, 2014 12:45 pm

Cyril R wrote:
KitemanSA wrote:
Cyril R wrote:The debate on Fukushima is horrible. I've been trying to fix Wikipedia articles that are nothing less than slander and half truths and biased apples to oranges comparisons. But the damage is too pervasive. Its like trying to battle a global virus with a handful of experts while everyone else in the world is running around like decapitated chickens.
At least with the Wikipedia, if you see something wrong it can be chanced, or at least modified. If you are interested, you may want to start listing the articles that need correcting here and seek help.
The problem is that there is a cadre of anti-nuclear writers who have taken most of the main articles hostage. Any changes you make will just be mass-undone uncritically. Whereas all critical questions you can pose about existing passages, will not be listened to.

Which articles are involved, sadly all of them that have the word "fukushima" in it.
Then we need a cadre of pro-nukes to change them back. Eventually, if we maintain a good record of good writing, good referencing, and repeated attempts to engage in constructive dialog, the wiki-board will step in and prevent the knee-jerkers from continuing.
DRJ : Engineer - NAVSEA : (Retired)

cerebral
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Re: 60 Minutes segment on Fukushima

Post by cerebral » Apr 13, 2014 12:58 pm

fukushima or nuclear really has become a frightening word since it happened. Yesterday i talked about nuclear with my brother. He isn't such a techhead, but immediately mentioned frightened Fukushima and that shutting all nuclear plants
needs to be done.
Then i told him the miraculous story about Liftrs. Was a long car journey.
He was quiet interested. So yeah, i think there is still much hope. Its only this way because those whole nuclear thing is messed up by politicians and media you know.

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rc1111
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Re: 60 Minutes segment on Fukushima

Post by rc1111 » Apr 14, 2014 5:50 pm

The media is guilty of pandering to the anti-nuclear crowd, pure and simple:

http://guardianlv.com/2014/04/japan-fuk ... est-coast/

Ida-Russkie
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Re: 60 Minutes segment on Fukushima

Post by Ida-Russkie » Apr 14, 2014 7:26 pm

The Japanese mismanagement of the clean up is not helping. They should toot more of their successes as well and problems.

macpacheco
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Re: 60 Minutes segment on Fukushima

Post by macpacheco » Apr 15, 2014 9:28 am

cerebral wrote:fukushima or nuclear really has become a frightening word since it happened. Yesterday i talked about nuclear with my brother. He isn't such a techhead, but immediately mentioned frightened Fukushima and that shutting all nuclear plants
needs to be done.
Then i told him the miraculous story about Liftrs. Was a long car journey.
He was quiet interested. So yeah, i think there is still much hope. Its only this way because those whole nuclear thing is messed up by politicians and media you know.
Only the truth will set us free. Nobody died from radiation so far. All public Fukushima cancer cases has been shown to have symptoms inconsistent with nuclear radiation cancer. The problem is those anti nuclear are far more vocal than the pro nuclear side.

This Wednesday, I'm giving out a pro nuclear lecture in my rotary club. 1/3 setting the facts straight on Chernobyl and Fukushima (with a focus on discrediting the anti nuclear movement for their common one thousand fold magnifications of issues), 2/3 why we need molten salt reactors (specially running on Thorium). Slides mostly taken from Kirk's TEDx YYC presentation.

If everybody that is pro nuclear took the time to convince a thousand others that nuclear is 99.99% good, we could win this debate. But talking about complex technological issues is always challenging to an audience that has zero engineering / physics / chemistry background.
Looking for companies working to change the world.

cerebral
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Re: 60 Minutes segment on Fukushima

Post by cerebral » Apr 15, 2014 1:59 pm

Here is a link to a free nuclear science course.
Maybe folks are more interested in it if they can achieve some basic knowledge.

https://www.coursera.org/course/nuclearscience

macpacheco
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Re: 60 Minutes segment on Fukushima

Post by macpacheco » Apr 15, 2014 4:39 pm

Enrolled. Do you have other suggestions for free online (college level) courses ?
Looking for companies working to change the world.

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